Quick Oppo Review: Drove a 1991 Lancia Thema today...

"Flavien Vidal" (flyingfrenchy) 02/25/2016 at 07:11 • Filed to: None

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I was surprised by the comfort and all the toys inside the car, along with the overall build quality of the interior. It’s a fairly decent saloon car! It was the 2L 16V NA engine. While not exactly powerful, it wasn’t a sloth either. The gearbox was smooth and the engine noise pleasing to listen to. Handling wise though I don’t think it’s up to par with what a Lancia is supposed to be... Not floaty or anything, just not really sporty enough to my taste... Suspensions coped very well with the asperities of the road though and while firm, ride was comfortable.

Great car really, I wouldn’t mind daily driving a faster version (There is a 3.0L V8 version of this car with a bit over 200hp), I just regret the slight lack of responsiveness of the steering...

If you can find a cheap one, go for it! Not bad at all, really.

(Yeah, totally forgot to take pictures of the car, sorry...)

pip bip - choose Corrour > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 07:21

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nice.

MultiplaOrgasms > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 07:27

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NOT ALL LANCIAS ARE RALLY CARS YOU KNOW

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 07:32

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My dad daily drove a 2.0l 8v turbo one of these for quite a few years when I was younger and holds it in very high esteem (just behind my Alfa 156 V6 which he also dailied in the ‘best cars I’ve driven’ stakes).

More proper luxury, features and build quality than anything else in the same price band.

Also, Lancias never really were sporty. They traded mainly on build quality that would put a late 70s Mercedes to shame. In fact, the reason they went under and were bought by Fiat was that it cost them so much to build a car due to the amount of time they put into building it that they couldn’t maintain profitability. That and drop-dead gorgeous looks combined with thoughtful engineering.

Think of them as the Mercedes to Alfa’s BMW, with some rally specials thrown in the place of AMG models.

Flavien Vidal > MultiplaOrgasms 02/25/2016 at 07:32

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Yeah, but you wouldn’t expect a BMW to be under whelming handling wise would you? Well, same for Lancias... It’s a good overall car, but the 2L 16V is not an engine for me, neither is the handling. On the other hand, the 32V Ferrari V8 that it came with along with some slightly updated suspension... Now, that would be more of a Lancia! :)

Flavien Vidal > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 02/25/2016 at 07:34

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Not a big fan of the Thema as far as the look is concerned. All the rest but the handling, which can be updated was very good though! I’d go for the Ferrari V8 version though as I’m sure they are awesome!!

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 07:44

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Yeah they’d lost a lot of their independence by that stage, and the Thema is part of a platform-sharing exercise that also spawned the Alfa 164, Fiat Croma and Saab 9000.

It’s handsome and restrained in an early 90s way though, if not gorgeous.

Handling would be something that I doubt they’d have put higher than ride quality, being a luxury vehicle first and foremost. The Alfa was the one to get if you wanted a tidy handler.

The Ferrari V8 one is definitely impressive, but the one to get is the 16v turbo. Lighter than the 8.32, more torque and only 10bhp less. It’s actually quicker than the V8, although they (obviously) didn't publicise the fact. Probably doesn’t sound as nice though.

There was an AWD version offered for the Alfa 164, but oddly not for the Lancia (which would have tied nicely with the rally heritage). Makes you wonder whether a swap would be possible :)

MultiplaOrgasms > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 07:59

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NOT ALL LANCIAS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SPORTY YOU KNOW

MultiplaOrgasms > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 02/25/2016 at 08:11

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are you single

Flavien Vidal > MultiplaOrgasms 02/25/2016 at 08:11

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Hum, actually yes, they are... From the late 50's all the way to the late 90's Lancia only produced sporty cars. The Thema was built to face BMW luxury saloons which were also sporty. I don’t even think it was avaialble with an automtic gearbox... The Beta was the only noticeable exception to the sportiness lineage of the brand, depite having a Montecarlo version which was sporty albeit very different looking.... Only recently did lancia start to make cars that had to nothing to do with its sporty heritage... Most likely for some ridiculous reasons, such as being profitable and so on...

Flavien Vidal > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 02/25/2016 at 08:18

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I don’t have much experience with turbo engines (my RX7 is the first turbo I’ve ever owned) and I have to say I prefer NAs, which is why I would go for the Ferrari V8 instead of the Turbo. The Ferrari V8 noise and responsiveness, that, I know and once you’ve tested it, damn, it’s hard to forget :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > MultiplaOrgasms 02/25/2016 at 08:25

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Alas not ;)

MultiplaOrgasms > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 08:28

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Because the Flaminia was soooo sporty with its pushrod V6 and 3300lb curb weight. Because the FWD Flavia was sooo sporty. Because the non HF Fulvia was such a sports car. Because the Beta as you mentioned was basically the same as a BMW E21. Because the Gamma was a sleeper in the best sense. Because non-turbo 1,3L Deltas are apparently the same as a GTI. Because the Y10 handles like a Mini Cooper. Because the Thema 8.32 outperformed the M5 in every way. Because the Dedra was the superior Lancer Evo. Because the Delta II exists. Because the Y had pink alcantara dashboards. Because the Kappa is apparently a sports sedan.

90% of all Lancias are NOT sporty cars, they never were. The sportyness either came as a byproduct of simply good engineering or corporate policy (who built the 037, Delta S4 and Integrale? Thats correct, ABARTH. Why did Fiat cancel the Stratos works rally cars? Because they decided that Fiat should get some motorsport glory as well and thus the 131 Abarth was born). Alfas on the other hand, now those have always been sporty cars.

MultiplaOrgasms > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 08:34

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You know that the 8.32 engine is basically a completely different engine from the one found in a Ferrari 308?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 08:34

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Yeah the noise part would be my main draw to an 8.32. I wonder how far you could take it out displacement-wise, seeing as it's the same engine as Ferrari had been using up til the 360. With AWD and a 5v flat-plane crank engine out of a 360 that could really fly :)

MultiplaOrgasms > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 02/25/2016 at 08:35

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*censored* intensifies

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 08:42

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Not really. They produced a number of cars that were really sporty, primarily for rally homologation, but the majority of their bread and butter cars had a stronger bent towards luxury than most premium manufacturers of the day, throughout their history.

Compare the Flavia 2000 (Berlina and Coupe) to the BMW 2002 and the Alfa Giulia/2000 GTV. The BMW and the Alfa emphasise sportiness with rorty engines, stiffer suspension and drivetrain layouts conducive to fast driving. The Lancia on the other hand has more of an emphasis on road driving with a more efficient (and technically novel) FWD layout, much plusher and nicer designed interior and softer suspension.

You can do the same with the later Gamma, or the earlier Flaminia. Even the small Fulvia was designed much more as a technically novel, pleasant road car rather than an out and out sports car. Later models like the Fulvia HF were much sportier, but that was only produced as a result of rallying and didn’t really affect the makeup of the rest of their cars.

You can see this with the Thema. They didn’t really play on their rally heritage like Audi, or their motorsport heritage like BMW. They focussed more on a plush interior, lots of nice accoutrements and technical novelty (turbo, Ferrari V8 etc.).

The Beta Montecarlo, the only real sports car they made that wasn't a homologation special, was originally designed as a Fiat (a bigger brother to the X1/9).

Really the best way of thinking about Lancia is as the Italian Mercedes, in every sense of the word. Primarily focussed on luxury cars for the better off upper middle class, with a random group of oddball engineers (AMG) cranking out mental cars like the Stratos, 037, Delta S4 and Integrale.

Flavien Vidal > MultiplaOrgasms 02/25/2016 at 08:48

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I have driven a Flavia, yes it is sporty. Great chassis and it reminds you of those typical touring cars such as the Dino which I owned and reviewed here but lighter. Again, same goes with standard Fulvia, with strong chassis, fast transmission and an engine that loves to rev. I have not driven a Gamma so I can’t tell, still it does have sporty look at least (Alfa GTV6 like a bit...). as for the Delta, the 1.3L seems to be on the same chassis as more powerful version which are definitely sporty. The are not Delta Integrale for sure, but still, nimble cars, light and enjoyable to drive. I only have experience with the 1.6L engine though... But just like BMWs, just because a few of their cars have insanely small engines (BMW 114i), it doesn’t mean the car is not sporty in its essence, ie: put a bigger engine on the same chassis and there you go!

The Y10 is basically a Fiat Panda which had an exellent chassis also and a reference in term of great city car (I’m actually about to buy a Fiat Panda 4x4 in perfect shape right now).

The Dedra sucked sand I had forgotten about this one... In all fairness it was the beginnning of the end for Lancia though... And what do you call a Delta 2?? Never heard of that one... As for the Kappa, it had a shit load of great engine and seem rather similar to the Thema, but with a much bewtter range of engines... I have never driven one though.

So as I sad and say again, Lancia makes cars with great chassis. Just because the Peugeot 205 came with a 1L engine, it doesn’t mean it’s not a sporty car anyway. The 1L 205 is actually a hoot despite being quite under powered. Same principle goes for all cars Lancia did. Sure its cars had a range of engines that went from really tiny to Ferrari made, but it had, nonetheless sporty/tight chassis, that allowed steering reactiveness and great behavior.

I just didn’t find that in the Thema I drove today and was a bit desappointed. Would love to try a Kappa though as it seem to have a GREAT engine lineup!

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > MultiplaOrgasms 02/25/2016 at 08:50

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Is it? Ah bugger. I knew it had a flat-plane crank and likely different head porting and cams, but I was kind of hoping the block would be the same so I could fantasise about swapping in a 5v 400bhp engine from a 360...

MultiplaOrgasms > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 02/25/2016 at 08:52

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The 8.32 has a cross-plane crank actually.

Flavien Vidal > MultiplaOrgasms 02/25/2016 at 08:55

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No I don’t. Still see it as Ferrari made and would love to drive one. After seing a few videos of it, I would ever more love to try one.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > MultiplaOrgasms 02/25/2016 at 08:55

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Ah, meant cross-plane crank (different from the standard Ferrari engine).

That sounds phenomenal :) my dad was idly looking at one a while ago but didn't have any money to get it. Ended up getting a Maserati 430 a month or so later that we still need to get running. Need a garage first though!

MultiplaOrgasms > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 08:56

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Didn’t Ducati build that particular variety of Ferrari V8?

Flavien Vidal > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 02/25/2016 at 08:59

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Could be interesting... I tried a few Ferrari engines, including some being in actual Ferraris lol, and I have to say.... it’s nice... really nice! You just can’t get enough of these high revving things lol. I sold my Dino, but I will have to get another one sometime soon though... This time it will be for me to keep and not flip...

MultiplaOrgasms > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 09:00

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At least we agree on the Kappa love. Supposedly the most reliable Lancia as well.

Flavien Vidal > MultiplaOrgasms 02/25/2016 at 09:02

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Noooooo idea... Still, after owning the Fiat Dino and driving a 308 and a 348, I get why people buy Ferrari in spite of the cost.... Those engines... damn. So now everytime I see a car with anything from Ferrari, I want to try it desperatly lol

Flavien Vidal > MultiplaOrgasms 02/25/2016 at 09:04

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It does look interesting indeed. I had completely forgotten about it really... But after looking the engine line up... Damn, everything looks awesome lol

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 09:05

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Nice :) which Dino? 206/246 or 208/308?

Flavien Vidal > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 02/25/2016 at 09:12

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FIAT Dino lol, that’s the trick haha. The early high revving 2L ones ;) (Ferrari 206 engines)

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/1967-fiat-dino…

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 09:28

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Even nicer! One of my favourite cars those :)

Jdrentarol > Flavien Vidal 02/25/2016 at 11:20

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Hey Flavian!

http://jdrentarol2.kinja.com/

I think you would do good on this site.

AuthiCooper1300 > MultiplaOrgasms 02/25/2016 at 13:40

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I agree with most of what you say because I am aware of Lancia’s history pre-Fiat. But it is true that the Stratos, 037, S4 and Integrale rally successes (i.e., the Group’s motorsports policy) enormously confused the issue for the consumer or the casual observer.

Once Fiat acquired Alfa Romeo (which, as you point out, has always been sporty, or at least “sporting-flavoured”) Lancia had no definite role or identity anymore in Fiat’s brand lineup. We know what happened afteward.

Which of course is impossibly sad and unwarranted.

AuthiCooper1300 > MultiplaOrgasms 02/25/2016 at 13:45

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Yes, that’s what I’ve read.

Although I am not terribly sure I would say it is vastly different, 308's flat-plane crank and different breathing notwithstanding. Was the block indeed non-interchangeable?

There is a crazy guy in the Netherlands who built himself an 8.32 estate (à la Agnelli) out of a Thema estate and a crashed 8.32. Lovely idea.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Flavien Vidal 02/27/2016 at 07:25

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Nice! I wonder what they would be like in terms of reliability. Later Lancias don’t seem THAT bad along those lines from what I’ve read...

I’ve always had a thing for the earlier model Lancia Ypsilon, which is related to the FIAT Punto and that’s always received decent-ish reviews in terms of reliability.

Flavien Vidal > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/27/2016 at 07:35

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Well it’s a friend of a friend’s daily driver... I drove it back from Toyota to Okazaki ashe somehow managed to crash both of HIS OWN CARS (other car is a Saab 9-3) by himself in his garage lol... I picked up the car and brought it to get repaired. Since it’s his daily driver and I rarely hear about it, I guess he is doing alright with it...

If the mechnaic is as good as the build quality, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were considered as very reliable. Now keep in mind it’s a smaller engine version... Not too sure about the Ferrari powered ones... :)

Amoore100 > Flavien Vidal 02/28/2016 at 11:34

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Bam , bam , and bam . Still, they are quite far if you live in Okinawa, and their prices are pretty high for 20-30 year old Italian cars, not to mention fuel economy and repairs would be miserable. On second thought just stick to old Citroens and RX7s...

Flavien Vidal > Amoore100 02/28/2016 at 16:22

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I’m not american, not military and I don’t live in Okinawa haha ;)

Amoore100 > Flavien Vidal 02/28/2016 at 16:43

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Oh. Well that explains a lot, besides the not American military thing. That much I knew :D